MSecorsky · Aug 01, 2005, 05:45 PM // 17:45

OK, I see more often than not people recommending Tiger's Fury for the increased attack speed.

Why?

For Tiger's, non-attack skills disabled for 5 secs, for 5-10 secs attack speed increased by 33%. OK, adequate... but why not use Lightning Reflexes instead?

LR - 5-10 secs, 75% to dodge or evade attackes, attack speed increased 33%.

Thoughts?

AceSnyp3r · Aug 01, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Because LR has a 60 second recycle time.

Terik Stoermshade · Aug 01, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Recharge time on TF is 10 seconds, Lightning Reflexes is 60 seconds.

The Ages · Aug 01, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51

60 Second Cooldown vs 10 Second Cooldown, While Lighting reflexes is a better skill when it is up it will be down more than oftain unlike Tigers Fury.

MSecorsky · Aug 01, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Ah ha... now that makes sense.

However, I tend to always carry SQ and QZ with me... I don't have points thrown into Beast, looking for the benefits without having to do so.

Thanato · Aug 01, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23

well all you really need is ~4 in BM for it to be effective. that will give you 7 seconds of increaased attack speed, to get to 8 seconds you need to boost it to 7 i believe

Xellos · Aug 01, 2005, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Ah ha... now that makes sense.

However, I tend to always carry SQ and QZ with me... I don't have points thrown into Beast, looking for the benefits without having to do so.

So you use SQ just to use LR? What a waste. Second, You put up QZ, which then requires you to waste 5 seconds and be somewhat immobile in the field of battle. And even then, your LR costs more because of it.

If you do more complicated math, it's plain obvious Tigers Fury is better, but don't take my word for it, go to other forums, because something as simple as TF vs LR is beneath Gurus sadly. I don't think the majority of players here can argue that effectively even though alot argue really silly things.

Moltov joss · Aug 01, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

OK, I see more often than not people recommending Tiger's Fury for the increased attack speed.

Why?

For Tiger's, non-attack skills disabled for 5 secs, for 5-10 secs attack speed increased by 33%. OK, adequate... but why not use Lightning Reflexes instead?

LR - 5-10 secs, 75% to dodge or evade attackes, attack speed increased 33%.

Thoughts?

Plain and simple, Tigers fury has a very low recharge time. Compared to lightning reflexes which has a 60 second recharge. Even with QZ and serpents going Lightning reflexes has something like a 20 second recharge.
A ranger who uses tigers fury is a dps ranger so most of thier skills will be attack skills or at least one they can spam while QZ is up making TF only a 5 second recharge.

Diomedes · Aug 01, 2005, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Even with QZ and serpents going Lightning reflexes has something like a 20 second recharge.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as Serpents and Lightning are both stances, one cannot effect the other, correct? Or does Serpents act on lightning right before ending?

-Diomedes

Kishin · Aug 01, 2005, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Ah ha... now that makes sense.

However, I tend to always carry SQ and QZ with me... I don't have points thrown into Beast, looking for the benefits without having to do so.

3+1 from minor rune. That's hardly any points, and fits perfectly into a 14 Expertise build. I would never carry QZ in PvE because it only serves to make life miserable for your Monks.

Having 33% attack speed for 7 of every 10 seconds is a lot better than 10 of every 20-30 (And that's with recharge buffs).

Serpent's will act on Lightning if you kick it up while LR is in recharge, I believe. I should test that, though.

Xellos · Aug 01, 2005, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diomedes

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as Serpents and Lightning are both stances, one cannot effect the other, correct? Or does Serpents act on lightning right before ending?

-Diomedes

Use SQ first, activate TF. It'll take away SQ, but it'll recharge the TF 33% faster in theory. Stack that with QZ, thats 66% faster. Sadly that's still 20.4 seconds, which is 10.4 seconds more then Tigers Fury. A lvl 14 exp LR is only 11 seconds, so that's 9.4 seconds where you aren't hitting faster. The simple math not including the DPS math just plain goes against LR.

MSecorsky · Aug 01, 2005, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

So you use SQ just to use LR? What a waste. Second, You put up QZ, which then requires you to waste 5 seconds and be somewhat immobile in the field of battle. And even then, your LR costs more because of it.

If you do more complicated math, it's plain obvious Tigers Fury is better, but don't take my word for it, go to other forums, because something as simple as TF vs LR is beneath Gurus sadly. I don't think the majority of players here can argue that effectively even though alot argue really silly things.

No, no... I got used to carrying it (the SQ) in trapper mode (comes in real handy there) and found that it can be quite useful with some of the bow skills that are a tad slow to rewind. I just never really considered TF because ... well, I never really considered it. Might be reconsidering, but won't admit that here. Actually, in trapper mode, LR serves me well for there are few times I really need it in a trapper group. Well, a good trapper group.

Xellos · Aug 01, 2005, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

No, no... I got used to carrying it (the SQ) in trapper mode (comes in real handy there) and found that it can be quite useful with some of the bow skills that are a tad slow to rewind. I just never really considered TF because ... well, I never really considered it. Might be reconsidering, but won't admit that here. Actually, in trapper mode, LR serves me well for there are few times I really need it in a trapper group. Well, a good trapper group.

Trappers don't use TF, because they trap. Hybrid Jack of All Trade Rangers use TF because it gives a bigger damage boost then any other single skill. As a trapper in PVE and sometimes PVP, you will never take TF. The best move is not LR, rather Whirling Defense, for at 14 exp, you get the whopping 19 seconds of 75% block. That is more then enough to secure you most of the traps you lay down in the face of a monster. LR serves no real purpose because your not going to attack when your trapping. A trapper relies on traps to kill, not their bow.

MSecorsky · Aug 01, 2005, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

Trappers don't use TF, because they trap. Hybrid Jack of All Trade Rangers use TF because it gives a bigger damage boost then any other single skill. As a trapper in PVE and sometimes PVP, you will never take TF. The best move is not LR, rather Whirling Defense, for at 14 exp, you get the whopping 19 seconds of 75% block. That is more then enough to secure you most of the traps you lay down in the face of a monster. LR serves no real purpose because your not going to attack when your trapping. A trapper relies on traps to kill, not their bow.

Well, perhaps I'm not doing it right then, but I like to keep Pin Down in the skill bar in case the aataxes break through the trap line just to keep 'em slowed down so others can lay the traps (as do I...) as you said. I suppose with this specific concept in mind, LR works OK, but I can definitely agree on the whirling idea as well.

Diomedes · Aug 01, 2005, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Use SQ first, activate TF. It'll take away SQ, but it'll recharge the TF 33% faster in theory. Stack that with QZ, thats 66% faster. Sadly that's still 20.4 seconds, which is 10.4 seconds more then Tigers Fury. A lvl 14 exp LR is only 11 seconds, so that's 9.4 seconds where you aren't hitting faster. The simple math not including the DPS math just plain goes against LR.

Gotcha, I wasn't 100% sure on the mechanics of that one as the text is not perfectly clear.

Perhaps I should sit down with a stopwatch today and make sure that I'm clear on things. Someone else suggested that SQ works and skills that are currently recharging. I'd like to try and test that one too.

-Diomedes

MSecorsky · Aug 01, 2005, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diomedes

Gotcha, I wasn't 100% sure on the mechanics of that one as the text is not perfectly clear.

Perhaps I should sit down with a stopwatch today and make sure that I'm clear on things. Someone else suggested that SQ works and skills that are currently recharging. I'd like to try and test that one too.

-Diomedes

It does work on skills currently charging... you can see the charge line noticably speed up when you kick it on.

Xellos · Aug 01, 2005, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Well, perhaps I'm not doing it right then, but I like to keep Pin Down in the skill bar in case the aataxes break through the trap line just to keep 'em slowed down so others can lay the traps (as do I...) as you said. I suppose with this specific concept in mind, LR works OK, but I can definitely agree on the whirling idea as well.

If the Aataxes break away from Spike trap and Barbed Trap, your team is doing something wrong in the first place.

Quote:

Perhaps I should sit down with a stopwatch today and make sure that I'm clear on things. Someone else suggested that SQ works and skills that are currently recharging. I'd like to try and test that one too.

That's the theory, I never said it works. I was trying to be fair in the conversation =p

MSecorsky · Aug 01, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

If the Aataxes break away from Spike trap and Barbed Trap, your team is doing something wrong in the first place.

Invariably, somehow the pull gets hosed and an aatax or two lags behind and shows up after most of the traps are popped.

Then there was the one guy using pin down while the other guy was pulling... that spread them out nicely...

It happens all to often, but I tend to do mainly PUGs.

Xellos · Aug 01, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Invariably, somehow the pull gets hosed and an aatax or two lags behind and shows up after most of the traps are popped.

Then there was the one guy using pin down while the other guy was pulling... that spread them out nicely...

It happens all to often, but I tend to do mainly PUGs.

Ward vs Foes/Melee/Harm should be ideal for any trapper group since it "stacks" in a sense with Aegis. You shouldn't even need to heal with one of those, plus meteor shower+aftershock does buckets.

ElderAtronach · Aug 01, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

If people are bringing pin down to a UW trapper party they are doing things wrong. Barbed trap has a much longer cripple time than pin down anyways. Bring something actually useful vs aatxes, like throw dirt and whirling.

And I completely agree with wards. They will save your ass when you have them up, especially the uber ward vs harm against those annoying terrorweb dryders.

Aug 01, 2005, 05:45 PM // 17:45	#1
MSecorsky Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: So Cal Guild: The Sinister Vanguard Profession: Me/	For those that know Rangers only... OK, I see more often than not people recommending Tiger's Fury for the increased attack speed. Why? For Tiger's, non-attack skills disabled for 5 secs, for 5-10 secs attack speed increased by 33%. OK, adequate... but why not use Lightning Reflexes instead? LR - 5-10 secs, 75% to dodge or evade attackes, attack speed increased 33%. Thoughts?

Aug 01, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49	#2
AceSnyp3r Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: May 2005 Guild: Work in Progress [WIP]	Because LR has a 60 second recycle time.

Aug 01, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49	#3
Terik Stoermshade Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA USA Guild: Eternal Knights Profession: R/Mo	Recharge time on TF is 10 seconds, Lightning Reflexes is 60 seconds.

Aug 01, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51	#4
The Ages Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jun 2005	60 Second Cooldown vs 10 Second Cooldown, While Lighting reflexes is a better skill when it is up it will be down more than oftain unlike Tigers Fury.

Aug 01, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23	#6
Thanato Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Quebec, Canada Guild: Followers of the Faith Profession: R/Me	well all you really need is ~4 in BM for it to be effective. that will give you 7 seconds of increaased attack speed, to get to 8 seconds you need to boost it to 7 i believe

Aug 01, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24	#20
ElderAtronach Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jun 2005 Profession: Mo/Me	If people are bringing pin down to a UW trapper party they are doing things wrong. Barbed trap has a much longer cripple time than pin down anyways. Bring something actually useful vs aatxes, like throw dirt and whirling. And I completely agree with wards. They will save your ass when you have them up, especially the uber ward vs harm against those annoying terrorweb dryders.